When business commitments start increasing, can you still live a nomadic lifestyle? And if yes, how does it differ from a freelance or purely nomadic lifestyle? That’s the central question of traveling while building a startup.
In this episode, we continue the conversation from episode 078… But instead of focusing on “what it’s like to build a startup while nomading,” Eli explains “what it’s like to nomad — while building a startup.”
By the end, we surprise ourselves with some candidly open reflections on the nomadic pursuit and what it means for a fulfilling life.
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How does building a startup influence where and how you travel?
It definitely influenced me, maybe not even consciously. In the beginning, with any type of business, you want to start at your home base. And this is what I did in Israel.
The idea here is that the initial phase of starting a business should about building the infrastructure. Make sure to cover the legal details. Register everything with authorities. Get on the same page with your partner(s). It’s very important to do before leaving.
So because of this, the beginning of my nomadic lifestyle was in neutral. I nomaded in my own country — which was a diluted experience since in such a small country you’re bound to be close to someone you know. (It’s definitely a bit easier to do something like that in a country like the U.S.).
Overall, it was a bit frustrating because I knew that I shouldn’t be in my home country while starting this adventure. But I stayed there and honestly it was a good move for getting things jumpstarted.
Then later, I made another great move. And that decision was going to India.
Now, when you build a startup, your initial phase with checking employee background from Fully-Verified is going to be quite slow. So it was the perfect time to go to the place with the worst internet. India is such an amazing place to be, I’m so glad I got to experience it, but you don’t want to be there when you’re in full-speed business mode.
And back in January 2011, when I was in India, that might’ve been the only time I would’ve told you that I’m traveling with a little bit of work on the side. Instead of nomading or working with small travel breaks — like I am now. So that’s what I would recommend: Don’t necessarily go full-speed right away and take advantage of lull time.
Were you worried that India’s poor connectivity might pose challenges to your startup venture?
Back then, I wasn’t worried. And I felt like the startup would be a second priority behind travel. When I started out, I really felt like I was traveling while the startup was just a hobby on the side.
This is much cooler than I am right now — I’m way too risk-averse now. My life has become way more stabilized. I find myself way more interested in locations that provide me with basic infrastructure for working on my business.
I guess you could say that in my “meta-nomad” life, the “meta” part has taken over. But then again, after India, I had 6 or 7 years where all my locations were random. They weren’t chosen for business or startup environments.
For some reason, it was very important for me to separate my meta life from my nomad life. And, unfortunately, this isn’t the case anymore. I used to go to places like Belarus and Moldova and deep Colombia. But now, most of my travels have to do with potential or existing clients.
And this is also special in its own way — it gives me a unique sense of purpose. But this is a more recent change to my traveling while building a startup.
However: I do want to say that the ability to grow my startup much faster has been reduced by my selection of locations. And whenever I went to a startup hub or some place with lots of entrepreneurs, great things happened in terms of business cooperation and mentors and whatnot. And while I really feel like I gained something by going to those esoteric places, I also paid a big price in terms of not being able to build and gain clarity on the business model.
Do you miss making travel decisions based on impulses and whims? Or are you finding a new sort of fulfillment?
It’s different. But also, I don’t miss it too much: If I go to Japan for a client or on my own, I’m still in Japan.
What I do miss is the carelessness of picking a location without considering the infrastructure. The strict filtering of locations based on things like time zones and internet infrastructure — this is something I didn’t have before. And I miss that non-attachment — of being able to go to the “crazier” places out there. Of being able to go to places with more uncertainty.
But traveling because of a client is also pretty fulfilling. You arrive to a place with a relative sense of meaning — someone is waiting for you, activities are planned, there’s a preexisting social dynamic. In a few places — the Canary Islands and Cape Verde come to mind — I arrived and was surrounded by clients who would become my friends in that ecosystem.
It’s essentially a trade-off: What you lose in spontaneity and wonder you gain in community and structure.
What is that community of nomadic startup founders like?
It’s very interesting. I think Derek from Wandering Earl said this in our interview. He said that if you feel lonely or like you’re lacking that sense of community, go to a hub.
Now, Derek was not speaking specifically about startup hubs — he was talking about digital nomad hubs.
As an example, take a look at Las Palmas right now. If I compare Las Palmas to my previous base in Seliniki in Greece, it’s completely different. Here, there’s a giant Slack group for nomads to meet one another. I’m already part of two Whatsapp groups for digital nomads. Even in a pandemic, the amount of opportunities in a place with nomadic community are much greater.
And note: These communities form not just because of location, but because of the growing consensus that this is a hub.
And also, it’s always changing. For instance, Berlin used to be one of these hubs, but it’s become a lot more centralized and expensive.
It’s interesting that in many cases, where you have a vibrant startup ecosystem, you also have a vibrant digital nomad hub. Because, by definition, startup people are open-minded — always down for new ideas and networking. It’s that hustling mindset, right? And you could say that digital nomads are also characterized by this mindset.
At StartupBlink, we’re ranking startup ecosystems, and I’m actually using these rankings to influence my travels. So if a location isn’t in the top 500 or even top 1,000 of the rankings, I know that my social life is going to suffer as well as my ability to work on my business. The startup element and the social, digital nomad element often go hand in hand.
Where is there a stark contrast — places that are obvious startup hubs but not nomadic hubs and vice versa?
The startup world is really divided into two worlds.
- The first one is the VC (venture capitalist) club. This once is super serious, all about creating things that take over the world.
- The second one is much more connected to nomadism. The first one doesn’t really allow for nomadism — you have to be in the same location to raise capital and grow the idea. This second one is the bootstrapping club, with self-funded startups.
The idea here is that places in the first club are very unlikely to become nomadic hubs. You’re not going to Silicon Valley for a few months on a tight budget. These serious startup hubs are pretty punishing — these aren’t places with cost arbitrage. (In fact, the cost works against you because everyone wants to be there).
This actually connects back to the loss we nomads experience for not staying in one spot. Because there is an element of compounding interest when you stay in one place, your ability to network and build relationships and a personal brand within an ecosystem is much larger. And that’s why people pay so much to live in those VC clubs. But this is something we nomads sacrifice.
However, there are some hubs that are perfect for us bootstrappers. Chiang Mai is the capital, as I often mention (although it’s less focused on startups, more on marketing agencies & freelancers). We have a whole article on nomadic locations, but some notable bootstrapping hubs include:
- Cluj-Napoca, Romania
- Sofia, Bulgaria
- Kiev, Ukraine
- Medellin, Colombia
- Boulder, Colorado
- Austin, Texas
In these places, you have the mentality of bootstrapping. And in these places, you’ll be able to find your tribes. All while being manageable from a cost-analysis perspective.
So there definitely is a caveat here: Startup hubs are great for your social life and your nomadic life and your tribe-building, but it has to be a bootstrapping hub, not a major VC hub. It feels like we need to make this distinction when talking about startup cities.
From a day-to-day standpoint, how has traveling while building a startup changed your habits and priorities and general lifestyle?
The first thing would be coworking, but I’ve come to realize: Even without the startup, I’d still do coworking. For me, I can’t just simply stay at home.
Although I will say: This past year I spent 6 – 7 months working at home. And I am shocked by how successful it was. I would never have imagined it would have worked out this well.
But I actually realized the value of coworking back in 2012, a year into my adventures. Initially, it seemed weird to pay for an office, but one of my friends in Buenos Aires recommended it to me after I confessed that I missed the social aspect and structure of an office. And since then, I’ve been hooked.
That said, that’s not strictly due to the startup as much as my meta nomad life. So I think the biggest change from traveling with no startup to traveling while building a startup would be: The division between weekdays and weekends.
In the beginning, when I started nomading, I didn’t maintain this distinction. I was actually quite proud of often not knowing what day it was.
But now, I have to know what day it is. And I have to adopt some of the structure of life of non-nomadic people. The only difference between me and them is that every few months, I take a bus or a plane and settle as a local somewhere new.
The sense of commitment to the startup is pushing me into this mindset. Whenever I get to a new spot, I have to settle down fast. I have to find my grocery store, my restaurant, my coworking space, my accommodations. And then I just keep going with life as usual.
I think the most painful part of all this is the inability to say, “you know what, I’m changing my structure.” Life now is much more regimented, with a loss of flexibility and more induced structure.
And that’s the thing about building a startup: It’s a long-term commitment. Unlike a job, even, which you can stop to take a break before moving on to the next one, with a startup you are fully in it. It doesn’t allow for long breaks. Because the minute you let go, it’s not likely to sustain itself.
Honestly, this kinda goes against the nomadic philosophy, in a way. But it seems you can’t win ’em all — you have to give up something with these decisions. As always, it brings us back to the topic of attachments.
Now that you’re many years into the startup pursuit, how do you feel about this attachment?
Well… You know what scares me the most about having a startup? I often think about what it would be like to exit from it. What it would be like if I eventually disconnected from the business.
But then I face my biggest struggle, which is this worry that my sense of meaning will be gone. So this story that I tell myself — “I’m working because there is an end goal, and we’re building something but I maybe have the possibility of selling it or making it passive” — I think I have yet to confront the question of whether I would even enjoy walking away.
Because as a startup builder (or even a freelancer or as someone at a marketing agency), this label is a big part of your definition. That’s the question everyone asks: What do you do? What is your thing in life?
I have a worry that if I were “lucky” enough to sell my startup or disconnect from it, I’m not sure what would be my meaning. Because I never really traveled without the startup in the background. And that would be a very interesting test to try one day.
It’s something to keep in mind: The extent to which your profession influences your definition and your ego and the way that you look at the world and your contribution to the world. The big question is: Are you capable of redefining yourself to find meaning in freedom of travel? And that’s a question that I honestly don’t know the answer to.
On a more positive note: What has been the most fulfilling life of the startup lifestyle? What will you look back on fondly?
For me, it will be the creation and uncertainty. We talked about how a startup is connected to the nomadic lifestyle. Where the meta reality is rooted in a path of uncertainty.
For me, it’s very cool to see that my meta reality (which unfortunately is much more central than my nomadic reality) is in a state of constant change. Because startups are all about constant change. Every day is new. You receive lots of bad news and the occasional good news.
So that’s my big element: Not just coming in and clocking my hours but actually staying in an environment of uncertainty. That’s the excitement of traveling while building a startup for me.
And on top of that, I enjoy the thrill of trying to create your own thing. This thing — it would not exist in the world without you. And this is a good balance for the nomadic lifestyle, which is all about not settling down, not building the house, not building a legacy. Just embracing freedom in the moment.
Startups are quite different because it allows you to have a meta reality that does build a legacy. And it lets you tap into an element of compounded interest that you can’t tap into from the nomad side. The startup mentality allows you to have something that stays with you for many years. While the nomadic side makes you start from scratch every time.
So there’s a thought: Maybe you need to balance freedom with an attachment. But the startup is an attachment that allows you to keep that freedom. And at the same time, it balances you and shows you the limitations of your freedoms. And maybe, this actually allows you to sustain it all for the longer term.
What do you think about Eli’s perspective on traveling while building a startup? Do you have any thoughts or questions? Or maybe an experience of your own you’d like to share? Comment below & we’ll reply asap!